At around midnight the shelling began

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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed May 01, 2013 11:15 am

Well, that looks like a very interesting campaign indeed!
Just so I understand this completely: So a commander can decide the plane-set by spawning in a specific plane? And the plane-set will support any of the scenarios you describe?
In that case you have basically one mission (template) that is re-used every week? Secondary objectives/events are randomly chosen during the mission? Ie: submarine caught in nets: Please provide air cover? That would sound ideal. Testing it will be hard/a lot of work though, keep it in mind.

The German minelayer: Would that be a similar vessel as the drifter or is it completely different? I had in mind to use different flags and decals to create both British and German versions of the same boat.

What I found on the net:

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Similar layout, but larger with two chimneys. Or, much bigger:

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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Bandy » Wed May 01, 2013 12:14 pm

This sounds really great. Lots of good ideas being expressed. A 6-8 hour mission would be EPIC, but as we all agree, it must be dead-is-dead...

As far as the extra boats are concerned Vander, yes, I think you should keep it to one general purpose ship with a AAMG (doubling as minesweeper and mine layer) and perhaps just change the flags/decals as you mention. That way pilots need to get visual ID first before just bombing the hell out of it... Penalties must be made for destroying friendly shipping!!!

I can give it a go with skinning, if you or Wolfie can do the UV mapping since I am hopeless with making templates (at the moment). Let me know.
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed May 01, 2013 12:30 pm

I will finish the drifter first in any case! Still lot of work to do before all the objects on the ship are there. Then the fun starts when I create the damage models. :)

I will provide full uv-mapping of course and maybe a sample texture. But I'm not the most talented texture artist, so for the model to truly shine we need someone who is good at this. It would be great if you want to give it a go Bandy!
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby Waxworks » Wed May 01, 2013 3:19 pm

For both German and Royal Navy minelayers I was going to use the passenger merchant ship, as from what I understand both sides had converted ferries as their seagoing minelayers.

The drifters will work well for both net tenders and German minesweepers. Both sides also had minesweepers of about twice the size which mounted more guns, but having two classes of minesweepers seems hardly necessary in the absence of so many other vessels. What I was trying to suggest was that some of the armed drifters should have low angle guns only, otherwise you might have too much flak. Drifters tended not to have any high angle weapons at all, however if we have some mounting flak it could make up for the absence of the bigger vessels which would normally operate with them.

This site might help with German light forces: http://www.navypedia.org/ships/germany/ger_index.htm Other than the drifters and motor boats the most useful ship might be a German torpedo boat, which were often bomb targets in the Flanders ports, and at least one was sunk. There was also an incident where it was discovered that the German torpedo boats were being moved to anchor about a mile offshore during bomb raids, and a motor boat attack combined with the bomb raid sank one. However the design I have at present will work with drifters alone, or with flak barges with no ammo in the early versions.

Yeah, my outline concept is that you have the 'force commander' spawn in one of 4-5 planes and this would decide which index was used when the other machines came up. The 'force commander' would quit and be allowed to reenter using his main profile. So for the Central side, Gothas would only be available if the main mission selected required Gothas, for instance. Some of the secondary objectives would be random but most would be standard, there would always be points for destroying all the enemy balloons, or for a recce of the major cities, for instance. Perhaps I should add Bruges and Furnes to the recce list. With a mission of six hours or so there will need to be several objectives.

Submarine operations are a concept problem that I'm working on. I'm not sure how to spawn U-boats and make them dive as part of antisubmarine operations, it's difficult because you can't have a complex trigger that moves with the submarine. Can they be made to dive independently of other movement? Also, basically an antisubmarine patrol is very dull and far less likely to involve air combat, and pace 'Spider Web' these patrols failed to sink or even damage a single U-boat, though some were inconvenienced. It might be better to have U-boats appear near harbours and convoys, and ignore the open sea element, unless a U-boat is damaged and unable to submerge?

The mission should work off a single template, with some modifications depending on the Strandfest element, so that you have three versions but one is very similar to the first. There might be minor variations to allow random factors to be influenced by the result of previous missions, although this would then run more of a risk of the wrong mission being run, so perhaps keep it simple? Testing will involve work, but then so would testing 4-8 separate missions.
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed May 01, 2013 4:30 pm

All very good suggestions.

Using the existing merchant ship as a minelayer is a suitable solution. Keep in mind though that these ships carry no flags so you can't identify friend or foe.
I have seen a picture of a drifter fitted with a 6 pdr AAA gun (http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBri ... Cheery.htm), so we may have to create three versions: one without armament (can double as fishing boat in other missions), one with MG on the deck and one with AAA gun on the front deck. Then in the mission you can vary the numbers of each type to get the protection you want. Actually there may be six if we create German versions (different flags/weapons/uniforms/decals) as well.

A submarine patrol is probably not an interesting option, but a submarine "hunt" is. Like you said: a sub caught in a net, or a damaged sub running in circles or even a sub attacking a vessel with it's deck gun. As long as the boats don't move that fast you can still use a large complex trigger. In fact, you could define a number of complex triggers along the projected path of a submarine and only activate one once a waypoint has been passed. Then you can still have logic to let a sub dive when an aircraft is over head.
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby Waxworks » Wed May 01, 2013 6:07 pm

It might be obvious from where the minelayer is operating which side it is on, and I'll probably accompany the ships with a warship for some defence.

Here is the basic operating area I am working with:
Channel_base.zip
with the net area indicated in the centre and the Harwich-Hook convoy area in the northeast. I used the map to test the Felixstowe base in multiplayer and it seems to work, I wonder if we could persuade 777 to let us have aerodromes like Boistrancourt functional as well..?

I'm still not convinced about having submarines on the open sea, it would work with a number of complex triggers but you would need many U-boats to allow for a random element and then you are using a very large number of complex triggers. As in the war, U-boats are more effectively attacked around convoys and harbours!

What sort of numbers should I plan for..75? Is 80 possible? With multicrew machines this seems not to go very far though in any case I would be cautious about scout numbers. The first version of this will have unlimited machines, however.
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Bandy » Wed May 01, 2013 6:28 pm

SYN_Vander wrote:... Using the existing merchant ship as a minelayer is a suitable solution. Keep in mind though that these ships carry no flags so you can't identify friend or foe.

Well, remember that if it or the ships with it, are firing at you, it's probably a safe bet they are hostiles... No flags needed really, but nice to have.

SYN_Vander wrote:A submarine patrol is probably not an interesting option, but a submarine "hunt" is. Like you said: a sub caught in a net, or a damaged sub running in circles or even a sub attacking a vessel with it's deck gun. As long as the boats don't move that fast you can still use a large complex trigger. In fact, you could define a number of complex triggers along the projected path of a submarine and only activate one once a waypoint has been passed. Then you can still have logic to let a sub dive when an aircraft is over head.

Very cool. Were the submarine deck guns ever used for AAA? I don't seem to remember that being mentioned in Spider Web. Doh! When I think about it, the sub needs to get away underwater, so no crew on deck at all, not even for a AAMG...

Would be nice to test pilot maximum now with the new server. Another Total War, just for the heck of it? :grin:

And I can make the textures nice and weather beaten, with rusty streaks, sooty, etc. or did you say something about them being "shiney" ???
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Vander » Wed May 01, 2013 8:38 pm

Yes, please make 'm worn, rusty and sooty :)


Added some more detail. Next step will be the rigging!

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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Per » Wed May 01, 2013 9:35 pm

Nice clean mesh Vander! Gj!
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Re: At around midnight the shelling began

Postby SYN_Bandy » Thu May 02, 2013 10:54 am

It does indeed possess clean lines! Will be lovely to skin. Let me know when you're ready!

I noticed from the image below that this model has at least one torpedo on the deck, or am I seeing things? Again, I would think these repurposed ships would not have the deck strength to host an AAA, so one or perhaps two AAMG would be more natural, and likely more deadly at lower altitude.

SYN_Vander wrote:I would like to make at least two versions: A "normal" one (general purpose/ fishing boat) and an armed (AAA gun or machine gun) "mine sweeper", see picture of a model below:
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